P-38 vs. Stealth/Phantom

[Chris Foreman]

Hello, All-- I have a Lightning Stealth (aka, Phantom) that's four years
old and worn out. It needs wheels, brakes, seat webbing, seat stays, some
welding work on the frame, and paint, among other things. For years, I've
been considering an upgrade to a P-38, and if ever there was a time to do
it, it's now. Does anyone have experience with both of these bikes? Can
anyone give me a comparison? Here's what I've gathered so far:

(1) The frame and fork of the P-38 are 2.5 pounds lighter than the frame
and fork of my Stealth. Source: Tim at Lightning Cycle Dynamics.

(2) The P-38 is extremely stiff; so much so, in fact, that every twig one
runs over sends a shock through the frame and into the rider's bones.
Source: Two different persons who test drove the same P-38.

Can anyone help me with other comparison characteristics? Thanks in
advance. --Chris

[Robert Siegel]

That's nonsense. I am 75 and loved my P-38. I moved on to a Ti Rush but
that was not a reflection on the P-38 XT, just a personal choice between two
very different recumbents. The P-38 is very fast and an excellent climber
and a gave me a very good ride on decent trails and roads. It is NOT an
off-road bike, through. If I got another I'd get a Pantour front hub, just
as I did on my Ti Rush.

[Akensmith]

Does anyone have experience with both of these bikes?>>

Well, I test rode a 2000 Stealth and loved it so much I decided to spend the
extra $$ for the P-38, sight unseen.

(2) The P-38 is extremely stiff; so much so, in fact, that every twig one runs

over sends a shock through the frame and into the rider's bones.>>

That was certainly true when the bike was shod with the original narrow Conti
tires. I long ago switched to a Comp Pool on the front, and a Conti Grand Prix
3000 (622-28) on the rear. Shock through the frame was eliminated, and because
of the wider, more stable tires, I actually ride faster and with more
confidence than I did before. If you order a P-38, get the base model. The
"performance wheel" option which includes the narrow fork precludes using a
wider front tire. Read the specs on the website very carefully! Good Luck, and
don't pay any attention to the many Lightning detractors. LOL!

Norm

[Jeff Wills]

Post by Akensmith

Does anyone have experience with both of these bikes?>>

Well, I test rode a 2000 Stealth and loved it so much I decided to spend the
extra $$ for the P-38, sight unseen.

(2) The P-38 is extremely stiff; so much so, in fact, that every twig one runs

over sends a shock through the frame and into the rider's bones.>>

I agree with Norm- I rode thousands of miles on a P-38 and never
thought the ride was particularly rough, but I never used a tire
narrower than 28 mm on the rear. It also helps to replace the seat
foam with a Thermarest "Stadium Pad". Cushy!

Jeff

[Cletus Lee]

Post by Chris Foreman
Hello, All-- I have a Lightning Stealth (aka, Phantom) that's four years
old and worn out. It needs wheels, brakes, seat webbing, seat stays, some
welding work on the frame, and paint, among other things.

IMO it probably needed new brakes 4 years ago.

Post by Chris Foreman
For years, I've
been considering an upgrade to a P-38, and if ever there was a time to do
it, it's now. Does anyone have experience with both of these bikes? Can

I have only test ridden the Stealth/Phantom so, my opinions are limited to P-38s. Although,
'out of the box', I would not consider a Phantom except as a frame.

Post by Chris Foreman
(1) The frame and fork of the P-38 are 2.5 pounds lighter than the frame
and fork of my Stealth. Source: Tim at Lightning Cycle Dynamics.

I think those 2.5 lbs that are shaved off are in the right places to translate into a faster
bike.

Post by Chris Foreman
(2) The P-38 is extremely stiff; so much so, in fact, that every twig one
runs over sends a shock through the frame and into the rider's bones.
Source: Two different persons who test drove the same P-38.

Not true, In fact, I think just the opposite. While the frame may be stiff in a longitudinal
direction, the 'space-frame' triangulation allows for a lot of later flex. For example, if you
grab the back of the seat and shake the bike, it jiggles like Jell-O. If the angle of attack is
good, I usually hit RR tracks at full speed and hardly notice the bumps. I have ridden my bike
on all kinds of roads for 7-8 hours a day and have done this for 6-7 days in a row. I have not
noticed any tiring of my body due to bike induced shock. Just as I said in my preface, I can't
comment authoratively on the Phantom since I have only done test rides. I would not consider
strongly any opinions of people that have only 'test ride' experience.

And now for some 'warts':
Someone mentioned swapping out the wimpy foam seat pad for a Thermarest sport seat. This is
perhaps one of the reasons I can ride 8 hours aday for days on end.

LCD brakes are crap. This is due in part to the mis match of the outmoded brake levers to the
Odyssey 'A' brakes. A P-38 H/B requires a specially bent lever to matck the curve of the H/B.
This is not a bad thing but the brake lever supplied with my P-38 (RitcheyLogic) were never
satisfactory. I have heard that the Tektro are not any better.

A P-38 with a 700c rear wheel gives very little clearance in between the chain stays for brake
arms, fenders or wide tires. The 26"(559) rear wheel has none of these problems.

The Performance option also puts a skinny fork on the front that limits tires choices to one
and only one tire (Conti GP)

Front Suspension is not worth the extra $350. Mine was DOA (not a rare occurance I understand)
and even when I had a functioning one, it did not seem to be that much better. I now have a
Non-Suspension Fork and really can't see any difference in comfort. IMO Suspension forks are
slower. I noticed a great jump in speed when I switched from a 16" sus=fork to a 20" non-sus
fork. (I will grant that some of this improvement may be attributed to the fact that 20"
wheels are faster that 16".

Post by Chris Foreman
Can anyone help me with other comparison characteristics? Thanks in
advance. --Chris

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Cletus Lee
...
LCD brakes are crap. This is due in part to the mis match of the outmoded brake levers to the
Odyssey 'A' brakes. A P-38 H/B requires a specially bent lever to matck the curve of the H/B....

In addition, only some brakes [1] will fit properly on the front due to
cable interference with chain and/or the strut that braces the boom. I
am aware of two P-38's where attempting a U-turn to the right will apply
the front brake.

[1] < http://www.lightningbikes.com/buying.htm >

Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers

[Cletus D. Lee]

In article <***@qconline.com>, ***@qconline.com
says...

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by Cletus Lee
...
LCD brakes are crap. This is due in part to the mis match of the outmoded brake levers to the
Odyssey 'A' brakes. A P-38 H/B requires a specially bent lever to matck the curve of the H/B....

In addition, only some brakes [1] will fit properly on the front due to
cable interference with chain and/or the strut that braces the boom. I
am aware of two P-38's where attempting a U-turn to the right will apply
the front brake.
[1] < http://www.lightningbikes.com/buying.htm >

Solved that problem by routing the cable in the style of Bacchetta and
CG.

Loading Image...

This is a Shimano XTR 2003 brakeset. The levers even have the
distinctive LCD bend
Loading Image...

[Chris Foreman]

My thanks to the many who helped me with this, both here in the list and
by e-mail. I'm no longer apprehensive about upgrading to a P-38, but I
can't find any compelling reason to upgrade either. I've decided to hold
onto the Stealth for at least another year. --Chris